New Update on News!

[Teila]

Check out the new update on the News (http://www.adellion.com/) located at the front of the website. John has created a nice document to show you how one of the skills will work.

Enjoy!

[DeadZone]

Awsome, it really shows the intertwining(?) you guys have put into Adellion. I new making the simplest of objects was going to be complex, but nothing like this.

It's just stunning. From the screen shots i've seen from 2003, it's easy to see that these are not the "best" of graphics(though they are not needed). But the need of many things to make something so simple is just great. I could see how a wood workers would have a fun time just trying to get on his feet. Having to gain the skill just to make a contraption like this, then be able to make a table, or something of that sorts.

My hand goes out to the team, as I would never had imagined involvment to these proportions.

Gotta go, teachers close!

[Teila]

Remember, that is just a 3d model whose picture is of quality for the pdf document. Its not shown in the game. I think it will look much better in the game. :)

[DeadZone]

Oh, even better than.

Phew, finally out of the teachers class and back home..

[Zycronimous]

Hey is the document blank. I could not view it.
When I click on it my what not 6.0 starts up and the document is complitely eaten by Teila or something. lol

[Teila]

You need Adobe Reader. It works perfectly for me so not sure what the problem is on your end. Sorry!

[Zycronimous]

I got adope reader 6.0 but i am not getting an open document. I been trying to open it before asking but I give up. I'll keep on trying though.

[Teila]

I got adope reader 6.0 but i am not getting an open document. I been trying to open it before asking but I give up. I'll keep on trying though.

It just opened for me...maybe try to redownload Acrobat Reader.

[Zycronimous]

Ok, I got it going. Looks like a fine piece of machine the tool.

[Roo]

All I can say is I hope this isnt a portent of something similiar to "Roma Victor"

Nuff said.

[Teila]

All I can say is I hope this isnt a portent of something similiar to "Roma Victor"

Nuff said.

Not really..I have no idea what Roma Victor is! Explain please, Roo!

[Emri]

Roma Victor is a skill-based MMORPG that is in the last stages of development (open beta, I think) slated for release within 6 months, if no kinks.

It is set in the Roman Empire era and is supposed to be a very realistic virtual world of the time. Even historically accurate for its time line. It boasts a crafting system that is supposed to be complex, engaging and fun. Combat is supposed to be a mix of player and character skill. And the players can even take over Roman territory and overthrow or kill the Emperor, if capable.

Only one species, human. But you are able to be any of numerous races (celtic, german, roman, and many other nationalities of the time) and the character customization is supposed to top notch, as well.

Please understand. This is all it advertises or is expected to be. Not sure what it will actually look or play like till release.

Take a look at their website if interested. May be someone's alternative till Adellion is up and running.

www.roma-victor.com

[Teila]

Thanks, Emri.

Not sure why Roo thinks this game will be like Roma Victor. LOL But oh well....we will have a complex crafting system but one does not have to play a crafter.

[sinister]

I think it might be because both games seem to be working with in character storylines that may actually advance, with realistic settings (although Roma Victor appears to have an actual historical setting) and who knows..? Maybe they even have permadeath.

The Emperor probably has, at least.

[Emri]

Thanks, Emri.

Not sure why Roo thinks this game will be like Roma Victor. LOL But oh well....we will have a complex crafting system but one does not have to play a crafter.

I think it stems from the fact that many people are looking for a gaming home that is fresh, different, innovative and mold breaking than most of the stale same ole games that are out today and Roma Victor (to Roo, at least) promises some of the same features that Adellion promises. Thus, he correlates one with the other as a possible choice for his gameplay. Just my opinion, mind you.

Only problem I see (not with his choice but with many gamers choices) is that we tend to give-in and play games we would not normally consider just because they have features that we have been wanting and even just for the change of pace and that usually ends up a mere temporary home, at best.

Oh, and Sinister, you are correct. I forgot that a charcter in Roma Victor may choose to become what they call Legendary. And what that means is you basically agree to become permadeath enabled but don't take it litely. Once decided, I don't think it's reversible. Other than legendary characters, death is not permanent but death is supposed to be a very risky and not-wanted thing because if killed one goes to some other realm-like place where they must basically work their way back from the dead.

[Teila]

Ahhh..sounds like a fun game actually. :) I had a feeling Roo did not like Roma Victor though.....

[Emri]

Ahhh..sounds like a fun game actually. :) I had a feeling Roo did not like Roma Victor though.....

Could be. Perhaps he is a beta tester and is not liking what he is experiencing. Or maybe he just doesn't think they will/can deliver with everything they promised. Not sure. Only Roo can answer that one.

I personally think it sounds fun and inovative, myself but am not particularly keen on the Roman Era aspect. Course, most games barely live up to half of what they say will be implemented ingame. Maybe this is to what Roo speaks of. Maybe he thinks Adellion will not deliver and let him down like so many games let us players down. *shrugs* Course, again, this is merely my guesses. Roo can better answer what Roo is speaking of.

[Roo]

Heh, better end the speculation now, though I did give you an excuse for a fresh discussion :).

In Roma Victor they have pole lathes as well. though they are used to turn down branches into poles of varying length. The picture of the pole lathe reminded me of the absolute tedium surrounding RV's crafting. The endless need to go from one incredibly boring phase of the manufacturing process to another works against it being fun to do.

I found RV's crafting fairly accurate historically, but as I said, due to it's complexity, very boring to do without plenty of diversion. After the hundredth toga you have made, it all gets very mundane :)

[Teila]

Ahhhh...well, Adellion's system will be complex as well. Whether it is mundane I suppose will depend on the player. Of course, we don't want EVERYONE to be a crafter. :) There will be plenty of professions that won't require that sort of complexity, especially the roleplayed ones such as politicians, leaders, religious figures..not to mention folks who want to hunt, fight, guard, law enforcement, resource gathering, merchant, shopkeeper, musician, etc. Some crafting skills, such as cooking will be rather simple. Others such as building a house or a ship will be very complex. But then, we want more cooks than shipbuilders in the game as there will be much less demand for shipbuilders. :) Remember, the player economy will have a huge impact on what people decide to do in the game.

[Roo]

Then how does one limit a field of expertise in the game? This is where many MMO's I have many problems with their so called economies. People generally will take the path of least resistance in choosing a profession. IE they will choose the path that gives them the most profit for the least time spent in gametime. Of course not everyone will be looking for profit, but overall its been my experience in a long history of MMO's that economies need to be continually manipulated to keep prices realistic and goods available.

If say 80% of the folk in Adellion want to be a blacksmith (used as an example) because they have heard its great to make money with and build your own armor, what prevents them doing so? and in doing so bringing the economy down. If everyone wants to be a blacksmith, wheres the food going to come from without the farmers and bakers? Wheres the clothing going to come from without the tailors and hunters?

[Teila]

Well, its a good question, but while I agree that 80% of the crafters who come to Adellion will want to be blacksmiths, I don't think 80% of them will actually be blacksmiths once the game stabilizes.

First of all, blacksmithing in Adellion is defined as the guy who makes the tools the characters will use in the game. Weaponsmithing and Armorsmithing are two separate skills. So this divides this group into three rather than one.

Second, if 80% of the players are smiths of some sort, they will have a very different time selling their wares. Adellion has a player based economy. There will be no NPCs who will buy worthless goods. Blacksmiths will rely on farmers, miners, and various other crafters who need items made from metal. Armour and weapon smiths will rely on fighters and soldiers....and I imagine Adellion will have less fighter and soldier types simply because we don't have monsters dropping loot to make fighting the easiest way to get rich. Armour weight is realistic so no one is going to want several sets of armour to carry in their backpack.

I have played other games with player-based economies. I noted one very interesting fact: Players want their characters to have money, houses, items, etc. The more the better. They are VERY materialistic. If there are too many smiths in a town, they won't make any money. Why would anyone pay a fair price for that shovel if there are so many on the market they can get them for practically nothing??

Adellion has one thing going for it that other games do not...Its VERY easy to pick up a new skill. If smithing isn't giving folks the profit they need, they can easily try something new. They don't have to save tons of money to be trained by an NPC; They don't have to give up an entire skill tree to pick up one new skill, etc.

Yes, there will be starts and sputters early on. But I think the player-based economy will balance things in the end. It might take a few months though. Star Wars Galaxies, in its old incarnation, had boring unrealistic skill making. In fact, I hated it so much that I never learned a crafting skill. :) The folks that became tailors were the wealthiest bunch in the game because there were not that many of them. They were sought after big time and very well respected by the community. In fact, many folks who were tired of dancing or fighting later became tailors so they could become rich! SWG did have loot dropping monsters...they added them because the fighters complained very loudly. Of course, this did ruin the economy to some extent...everyone was rich before long. :)

So I wouldn't worry too much about it. Smithing will be similar to the other skills in the game and unlike weaving, baking, etc., you will need a nice supply of mined resources...much more expensive and difficult to find than cotton or flour....and a finite resource to some extent. Since players thrive on competition and on acquisition, I don't think we will have a problem with too many folks mastering one skill. I think folks will spread out on the map and take their skills where they are needed. If they can't find a niche geographically, they will make one by changing professions.

If I am wrong, then we have the means to make adjustments to the game. This is what beta is all about. :)

[footballer]

when will this game be able to be played?

[Teila]

when will this game be able to be played?

Not for a while. It is still in alpha testing phase.

[Demor]

It's probably going to be a rough cople of months in the beginning until everyone has chosen their own way of life. I'd guess that lots of people are going to want to fight, get rich and explore, not so many will want a simple life of plowing fields all day. I am luckily one of the latter, and hopefully some others will be too :)

[Teila]

It's probably going to be a rough cople of months in the beginning until everyone has chosen their own way of life. I'd guess that lots of people are going to want to fight, get rich and explore, not so many will want a simple life of plowing fields all day. I am luckily one of the latter, and hopefully some others will be too :)

Well...since it will take some time for folks to get their skills up to par, I don't think it will be that bad. You won't get rich in a couple of months. As for fighting, a few deaths and I bet that will stop. :) Hopefully, many folks will get their share of permadeath in the open beta. :)

Remember, Adellion is not striving for the hundreds of thousands of people you see on the mass marketed games. Since we are a niche game, I imagine we will get mostly folks who are looking for something new and different. Those who want to kill newbies won't even bother to apply to a game that shows no numbers, no consider commands, no gauge to show achievement, etc.

[Demor]

That's the truth :)

How many people are expected to play the game then? I imagine there will have to be at least a couple of hundreds to populate the world enough to make trading and earning money from your "job" possible.

[Teila]

That's the truth :)

How many people are expected to play the game then? I imagine there will have to be at least a couple of hundreds to populate the world enough to make trading and earning money from your "job" possible.

Our marketing research has shown about 10,000 players in the US, Europe, Austrialia, New Zealand, and other places would be interested in Adellion. The server is being configured to handle that many people. Since everyone is on one server, we should have plenty of people.

[Demor]

Whoa, I should have expected that. Hopefully most of these will be playing to roleplay, and surely lots of people will leave after their first deaths, as you said :) But I guess I don't have to worry about underpopulation anymore :p

[Kashius]

[QUOTE=Teila]Well...since it will take some time for folks to get their skills up to par, I don't think it will be that bad. You won't get rich in a couple of months. As for fighting, a few deaths and I bet that will stop. :) Hopefully, many folks will get their share of permadeath in the open beta. :)[QUOTE]

I will no doubt be one of those who dies many maaaany times. I'll start over, grab a new bow/sword/dagger or what have you and go at it again. I'm sure with some practice/skill even a grunt can make it in Adellion. Sure I'll find time to socialize, maybe whip up a steak (no doubt from something I killed) and do other non-combat things. As long as I can kill one thing daily, I'll be happy to do whatever else it is I need to do to get by.

-Kash-

[Demor]

Well Kashius, maybe you should apply for a bodyguard job or something then, you might not get to kill someone every day (hopefully), but it seems like you would be very dedicated :)

[sinister]

Had he been my bodyguard I would have been very, very afraid.

The merchant glances at his bodyguard from the corner of his eye. He is nervous. Nobody has tried to kill him all day, and the bodyguard looks disgruntled. Not a day has passed without him slaying somebody, and today seems to provide no opportunities. The merchant decides to take a walk down some of the seedier areas where he might be assaulted, fearing that he will otherwise be today's kill for the bodyguard. Afterall, the fellow would still have a body to protect.

[Kashius]

Heheh, I didn't mean I had to kill a person daily. Basically combat will most likely be my way of life. I don't need to be rich, although I will have a trade of some sort to occupy my time when I'm not...hunting.

However, I'm wondering how much a good hunter could make. I mean, people need meat, right? Although, I do intend to be Dalmite, and they are psuedo-vegeterians. Body guard duty would be interesting, I'd probably pay people to attack so I saw some action. Assassin, not so much. No work there...and if you just run around killing people without a contract, you're just a murderer.

Rambling.

-Kash-

[Teila]

As long as I can kill one thing daily, I'll be happy to do whatever else it is I need to do to get by.

-Kash-

Okay, posted this before noticing there was another page to this! LOL

I thought you meant killing a player daily as well! Hunting is good though and yes, Dalmites will need meat and they will especially need leather and skins, plus other parts of the animals. Once a day would probably be very good...and would conserve the animals of the forest to grow and prosper. Just make sure you thank Elaen for her gifts so she will keep you safe.

Animals won't be THAT dangerous so I don't think you will die very often. You might be injured on occassion.

As for paying people to attack you, you can spar with folks using non-lethal mode, but I wouldn't OOCly pay folks to fight you. With perma-death the price could be high...besides its really not conducive to roleplaying. :) You might, however, set up your own sparring business where you can teach others to fight using the non-lethal mode to hone their skills. I imagine many folks will be interested. You might also consider becoming a member of the Dalmite military.

[Demor]

I think he meant IC paying people to attack whoever he was guarding to get some action :)

[Kashius]

Oh yea, I was just kidding about paying people to attack the one I was guarding. That's just silly :p I suppose I would be useful as a trainer or some such in the military. I doubt the life as an assassin would be very exciting. Would spend most of your time training your skills and almost zero time using them. Whatever career path I take I'm sure I'll have sword in hand.

-Kash-

[Teila]

I think he meant IC paying people to attack whoever he was guarding to get some action :)

Hmm...that would not really be IC though, would it? LOL In real life, one would not pay someone to attack the person they were guarding. ;)

However, if you work for someone who is wealthy or a political leader, you might find that you won't have to worry...you probably will see some action, either from players or NPCs.

[sinister]

It could be IC. I can see this brilliant scheme (called earning fame and making sure your master knows you're worth your pay):

Find a guy who's known to take a few shots when it seems safe
Tell a guy that you're this fellow's bodyguard (true)
Tell a guy that you're really placed there to get your employer killed (false, and dangerous)

Inform a guy that if somebody were to kill the employer, the bodyguard would not interfere unless people were watching, and then only barely. And that there would be a handsome payment involved. Give him a fair share in advance, and tell him there's four times as much to be had.

Now... When the fellow comes to kill your master, kill him.

Could this go wrong? Yeah, in one, two, three, four... several ways.

[Kashius]

Kind of what I was joking about. Fudging an attack on your employer as a guard. Tell someone where/when you're going to be somewhere, maybe even give them a disguise. Then when they strike you act all surprised, go non lethal on him and make a hasty exit.

But like I said, I was joking about that. I wouldn't go through such lengths to prove my worth. It would probably work against you in the future if anything.

-Kash-

[sinister]

Actually, it is dumb not to go lethal if you're going to do a plot like that. You have the most legally viable reason in the world for killing the only person who knows that you paid him. But it is a rather ridiculous act of extreme selfishness and near madness. While it could possibly work, it is not a good idea. (Or am I just saying that so that you won't suspect me when it happens?)

Schemes can be rather entertaining somehow.
As a little something to toss about and play with and hopefully never fulfill.

[Kashius]

Yea I have something of an over active imagination. I get a lot of amusement out of coming up with 'what if' type scenarios. In most cases, I like to try them out. Since I won't get to play this game for a while I've got plenty of time to work on something good :)

-Kash-

[Page_Noldor]

You know, the best people who 'test the horizons' in life are the ones who daily question...What if?

While the alpha are going to be testing the different features and hardware/software limits of the code, the beta testers will hopefully be using the "What if?" model to test the social, monetary, skill, and political structures in the game...at an early stage. That way the Devs can tweak the code to balance the Haves from the Have-Nots.

Keep up that train of thought and spread it to others!

Toodles,

Noldor Oncunnynge
Can Hear The Gears of Thought Churning...

[Kashius]

Well my 'what if' deal usually ends up with me doing something completely asanine and unfeasible in a lot of the games I've played. Reason being...the restrictions. Looks like here, a 'what if' can turn into a viable way of playing with time and effort. This is something that really interests me about the game. With time (it seems) you can make your mark on the world however you see fit.

Given the opportunity to actually play a role, I think I'd have a blast. Up until now I've just been efficiently killing anything that has a red name. The very thought of getting into a character has even gotten me to post in an RP forum. Before 2 days ago I would have thought that impossible.

I look to forward to any/all news of developments/updates.

-Kash-

[Roo]

So does every poor long suffering and ultimately supremely patient follower of this "new generation" game....

[Teila]

So does every poor long suffering and ultimately supremely patient follower of this "new generation" game....

Is this a new generation game? :) I like to think we are an old generation game that has finally listened to a subgroup of players..maybe because we are all part of that subgroup and we want a place to play!

[Atermis]

Is this a new generation game? :) I like to think we are an old generation game that has finally listened to a subgroup of players..maybe because we are all part of that subgroup and we want a place to play!

yeah, but there are nice features in this game, which really interrest me. The other MMORPG which are on the market now, seems to me, that they lead to one thing... hack and slay. Thats what i like, that i don´t have to kill monster all the time and can do something completly different to this. :)

I for myself think it is more a new generation game, instead of the existing game with killing monsters all over the time.

So keep going this way and please don´t make the mistakes SOE/LA did ^^

[Roo]

Is this a new generation game? :) I like to think we are an old generation game that has finally listened to a subgroup of players..maybe because we are all part of that subgroup and we want a place to play!

Lol Teila it WAS when I joined.....soo long ago..:)

[sinister]

Is this a new generation game? :) I like to think we are an old generation game that has finally listened to a subgroup of players..maybe because we are all part of that subgroup and we want a place to play!When it comes to what is progress Adellion would logically be a new generation game.

A more indepth explanation of why I think Adellion is a new generation game:

Current games have very low standards when it comes to "world quality".
They also have poor implementation of combat more often than not. Playability might be there, but the level system is dysfunctional in a setting where the enemies are not NPCs tailored to match your level (such as they would often be in a tabletop rpg), and permadeath is such a frightening feature. Any significant loss upon death meets such strong opposition that it is hardly worth considering in a commercial game these days.

But the games are not good enough. They lack in something, the gaming experience doesn't start until after the first two weeks of grind, and then there isn't much left of it either.

Adellion takes a different approach. Adellion aims to make the world dynamic and player driven, to let newcomers be a resource and not a bunch of n00bs, to make an immersive environment and to make consequences of rash moves, dumb actions and tough luck tangible.

Not only is this a difficult trick that requires a lot of thought and work, it has features that scare away even those who think every current game out there is such a horribly boring grind. Many can't imagine that a game where they are not rewarded by levels and powerful loot can be worth playing - they don't think they will be attached to the character, even...

Adellion will, by going live and supporting 10,000 players, banning 2420 griefers and a monkey (some scientists gave computers to an infinite number of monkeys to find out how long it took for one of them to log on to Adellion) be groundbreaking in gameplay standards, world quality.

If Adellion will grow beyond 10,000, or even reach it? I don't know. It has the potential. Many gamers know what they want, and they would love Adellion. Many don't know, and they would love Adellion. At least, I think they would. But the success of Adellion - and some similar projects, should they fly - would be opening a new market, and the greater gaming companies might eventually follow up with better games of their own.

Description of Adellion:
New, groundbreaking, pioneer, in alpha, not free, very very good, max. world quality, realistic graphics, roleplaying game... (Rich description yeah)

Freedom

Description of Brand-X:
New, released during beta (funder found development slow), not free, graphically good, low quality world, minimum immersiveness and roleplay, heavy grind and class based advancement

Grind

[Kashius]

Well damn. That was quite a roll you got on there. I think a lot of what you said is true, especially about character attachment/immersiveness as proposed in Adellion vs. other games.

I compare it to an artist (musical) releasing an album because they love what they do. They like singing/rapping/whatever and take as long as they need to make sure it is something they can really be proud of and enjoy. They want the highest quality even if it doesn't have mass appeal. They put their own unique style into their music. They know they enjoy it and share it with the world hoping others find the same enjoyment out of it they do.

Then you have the Puff Daddy types who just toss out albums that are crap, but because they are popular and backed by a big name fly off shelves. There is nothing new or even good about it, but people grab them as fast as they can because it's what 'everyone' likes. I will restate that it's crap now: It's crap.

And there's my impression of the Adellion project.

-Kash-

[Teila]

Lol Teila it WAS when I joined.....soo long ago..:)

Actually, no, it wasn't. The graphics in Adellion were even less state of the art back then then they will be now. The improvements have moved the game forward. Back then, we were very concentrated on a simple roleplay game..now we have added some complexities and improvements that will make us a much better roleplay game.

[Roo]

Actually, no, it wasn't. The graphics in Adellion were even less state of the art back then then they will be now. The improvements have moved the game forward. Back then, we were very concentrated on a simple roleplay game..now we have added some complexities and improvements that will make us a much better roleplay game.

Actually yes it was, I am not a graphics are everything type, when I refered to new generation game I was refering to the game world, permadeath, enforced roleplay and the many other additions that Adellion offers.

A game doesn't need to be made by microsoft to push rpg's to a new level. To keep a vibrant and enthusiastic community the genre needs to be continually innovating and risking new concepts. The large companies all tend to play things safe and go with minor changes and graffics upgrades to attract a customer base. If it wasn't for the smaller companies trying new systems and concepts, the genre would be alot more stagnant and boring. This game (if it gets to a useable state before I go blind or get shunted off to an old folks home) is one of those pushing out new concepts.

[Teila]

Hehehehe...don't worry. Since half the staff is your age, the team will be working on this in the old folks' home. ;)

[vint]

The latest pdf document won't load for me. Is anyone else having this problem?

[sinister]

What version of reader do you have? (Acrobat reader)

[Phophos]

I'm liking the new document, Teila. I hope this stays regular, it's really exciting stuff.

You thick-skinned Lore Person, you.

[Sylvado]

What version of reader do you have? (Acrobat reader)

I'm getting a blank page for both using Adobe 6.0 Pro.

If I paste the link in the file open window for Acrobat it works. If it is only 2 pages.

[Sylvado]

Ok, that was December that was 2 pages, the new one is 4. Perhaps changing the properities so it doesn't open in full screen mode would correct the problem some people are having. I get blank pages for both from the news page and an error when opening from the link in Telia's post. I will try it from home where I only have reader installed.

[vint]

I got it to work. I have version 7.0. I didn't know you had to use the mouse scroll to change pages. :o

[sinister]

For users of Adobe 6.0 (reader) I would generally recommend downloading 7.0 from www.adobe.com (Get Reader). Afterwards you should uninstall 6.0 as it won't be removed automatically.

(When you see that red download button, wait for the page to load. There might be a few boxes you wish to uncheck that show up after everything else)

7.0 generally works better, especially when used directly by the browser. That's my experience.

[Phophos]

I think it might be safer to download it to your computer, especially if you're running a non-sucky browser (http://www.mozilla.org/firefox). It crashed twice on me before I did that. Couldn't tell you what version I'm running though.

[Sylvado]

I think it might be safer to download it to your computer, especially if you're running a non-sucky browser (http://www.mozilla.org/firefox). It crashed twice on me before I did that. Couldn't tell you what version I'm running though.

IE works fine for me.