Update from David

[Teila]

David updates with a new technical column! You can find it here! (http://www.adellion.com/TechUpdate3.php)

[vint]

Wow. Congratulations Dolner and Sinister!

[Raesene]

Thanks for the update!

Congrats guys!

[Frayc Frostborne]

This all sounds very good. I have to admit that from past experiances with MMORPGs I'm a bit jaded and have a wait and see attitude. But at the same time I'm excited. On one hand it could all turn out to be a bunch of hype, on the other it could turn out to be a high quality product that sets a new course for gaming online. So, I'll wait to see, with more than a bit of excited anticipation.

[Tokugawa]

Thanks for the update!

Congrats guys!


What he/she said :D

[Teila]

Remember, Adellion is a niche game. It won't set the course for anything since it fills the needs of only a small subgroup of gamers who have been ignored by the major gaming companies. The masses, those average players who play EQ and DAoC are probably not going to rush to Adellion. Large game companies are in the business for profit, not to make breakthroughs in gaming or to introduce new fantastic projects. In fact, in the gaming industry, a game is not a success until it reaches 400,000 subscribers. Adellion is hoping for 10,000 and we do not strive for 400,000 at all. That many mass gamers would ruin Adellion more than likely. Compare us more to A Tale in the Desert please....a small niche game, very well respected and beloved by the players but not a game that draws every gamer out there. This means though, that some of of you might find that Adellion does not fit the bill as your dream game. Niche games, by definition, are marketed to narrow audiences. We won't have it all...and we don't want to have it all. Our niche is REAL roleplayers, those who put the story before the advancement, and those who strive to build communities and develop their characters rather than create chaos and kill everything in sight. The game is being created to encourage those within this niche to play and those outside the niche to abandon us for other games with more 'mass market appeal'.

[Robc]

...very well respected and beloved by the players...

A worthy goal... and the reason many of your fans have become so loyal so very early in the development process despite our experience with pre-game hype, etc. in other game releases.

Three cheers! ;)

[Phophos]

I think Adellion is my dream game. Nothing else comes close to being precisely what I want.

The update was very good, thank you David, and to Teila also for highlighting it (My homepage is the forum so I don't see updates very often :D).

Many congratulations to Dolnor and my darling Sini!

[Talori]

So nice to read these tidbits :) Glad to hear that the fan base is becoming such a useful resource for the game *hugs Bob and Aron and Connie*.

And welcome to the new programmer, Sanjit.

Keep up the good work!!

[sinister]

Many congratulations to Dolnor and my darling Sini!Aww, Phophos, you're so nice! And thanks for all the congratulations everybody! I'll try to do something that either makes a worker a bit happier, makes the game better, or both. At the risk of simply wearing my "superior" down with all those mails of course...

[Frayc Frostborne]

Remember, Adellion is a niche game. It won't set the course for anything since it fills the needs of only a small subgroup of gamers who have been ignored by the major gaming companies. The masses, those average players who play EQ and DAoC are probably not going to rush to Adellion. Large game companies are in the business for profit, not to make breakthroughs in gaming or to introduce new fantastic projects. In fact, in the gaming industry, a game is not a success until it reaches 400,000 subscribers. Adellion is hoping for 10,000 and we do not strive for 400,000 at all. That many mass gamers would ruin Adellion more than likely. Compare us more to A Tale in the Desert please....a small niche game, very well respected and beloved by the players but not a game that draws every gamer out there. This means though, that some of of you might find that Adellion does not fit the bill as your dream game. Niche games, by definition, are marketed to narrow audiences. We won't have it all...and we don't want to have it all. Our niche is REAL roleplayers, those who put the story before the advancement, and those who strive to build communities and develop their characters rather than create chaos and kill everything in sight. The game is being created to encourage those within this niche to play and those outside the niche to abandon us for other games with more 'mass market appeal'.

Teila, I hope Adellion isn't going to try to sell a low quality product on the belief that "true roleplayers" will buy it anyways, just for the roleplay. This has become a worry for me, especially after seeing some other games released lately with feature sets that seemed to be designed more around advertising hype more than functionality. This is the wait-and-see part for me. But I think it would be a serious mistake for Adellion to assume that roleplayers are so desperate that they would buy a product that's more than a little sub-par.

Yeah, I guess I am jaded, but the industry deserves it. We'll see if you guys do. I hope not. But your responces don't always help, not that that's anyone's fault neccessarily.

Edit to add: thinking about it, I guess you could easily expect 10,000 customers with low quality, but heavy roleplay. My comments about it being a "serious mistake" are probably way off base. It's just that a high quality game with the overall Adellion feel would do so much better. *Remembers UO saying the same thing about 10K players, then selling 10X that in the first year.*

[Teila]

Adellion will not be low quality. However, quality is very very subjective. I find MOST games out there to be low quality because they do nothing to create immersive lore. They might have pretty graphics, but the lore is nothing. The highest quality game I have ever played is Firan..and its a text game. I feel the quality of Firan comes from the amount of work the creators and developers put into the game to make it immersive to me, the player. They also spend a great deal of time making sure storylines are exciting and interesting to the players and involve the players as much as possible. They do not work to attract the masses, but instead work to attract the types of players they want to attract and if people do not follow the rules, they do something about it. That makes Firan a very high quality game in my book. Other games might have 'roleplay servers' but they DO NOT put the time, money, and efforts into enforcing the roleplay or creating environments or code to supplement, encourage, and promote roleplay. Instead, they tack us on for a few extra thousand players and a bit more money in their coffers.

So, Frayc, this all depends on what someone sees is quality. If they want an EQ2 style graphics, they might feel Adellion is low quality. If they want lots of coded details that are very difficult to make and can be done through roleplay such as coded animated emotions tied to lots of typed words, they might be disappointed. If they want a game that is their dream game and has every single thing they like in other games but nothing they dislike, they might be disappointed. BTW, I have no idea if you want those things..they are just examples. Don't take it personally. ;)

I think each of us has to decide what is 'high quality' to us. To me, its a roleplayed world with immersive lore. I could play a text game with such details and be as happy as in a graphical world. To some, it might be detailed skills and crafts. For others, the only thing that might please them is state-of-the-art graphics, something you probably won't get in a small niche game like Adellion.

As for the number of players, our marketing research shows 10k players. The game is being built for a base of this size. We will not have a steady subscription base of 100k players. A look at Alchemic Dream's other games will help you to understand this. We will not have the advertising hype of other games and we will not sell to the masses. We won't have full page ads in PC Gamer or TV commercials on Comedy Central. Our players will come to us through word of mouth and through game magazine/online articles written by the critics.

Also remember: UO did not have:
Permadeath
No magic
Player economy (more difficult to obtain money)
Skill caps
Tons of other games out there as 'competition' for the masses
Required roleplay
Yvoroc
Long healing times
Long crafting times

[Frayc Frostborne]

I won't take it personally at all, Teila, it's just a discussion. :)

I'm affraid that you all at Adellion are under-valuing the desire for the game you're making, as well as the need for decent graphics. I'm not too worried about the rest of the game's aspects, except for the world size.

I place absolutely no value on any marketing research in this field. They deal with numbers and past experiance, and use no logic or sense to come up with what they do. While marketing researchers can be unbelievably accurate in an established field with track records to go on, in this field they have nothing else to go on than what has been force fed by large corporations who built their games on angles based on hype and cost effectiveness, in a field remarkably void of competition.

However, while doing some number crunching of my own, I came to a realization. The numbers they have come up with make alot more sense if you consider regional servers. Adellion would be much better served as far as lag if they have separate servers for different parts of the world. Considering this, these experts do seem to make more sense in this. So did UO way back then.

And considering this, it could be me who's all wet. I could be the one making the misjudgements here. In either case, time will tell as always. My worries will be there untill I can actually see the results, so please excuse me for that. But please believe that I have a sincere desire to see this game come out and be what I can call quality. Yes, there's a big middle ground there, but there's also some definite ground at both ends of the scale. And bad graphics would most definitely reduce the appeal of the game, if that's the case. I really hope not, because graphics is something that stares us players in the face every time we log in.

[sinister]

Hey, Frayc, you do have a point. (Possibly about market research, most certainly about graphics quality).

However, there is one thing I've been wondering during all of this discussion.

Those who are worried about the graphics
a) Have they seen the movie samples and consider them not good enough
b) Have they seen the movie sample and expect them to be too far behind at release?
c) Have they not seen the movie samples and discuss the topic from the if the graphics are bad, they shouldn't be point?

All are valid positions, of course, c) being the one it takes the least amount of work and dedication to do something about. I believe that the graphics will be good enough for any who do not require apparent photoquality. The graphics, if too poor, could harm the immersiveness, and this might be some of the reason the most successful roleplaying game online to date is text based. I believe graphics will be good looking (not meaning that things can't look "shabby"), well fit to the theme (immersiveness specific) and easy to work with. (GUI, Graphical User Interface)

[Teila]

The graphics ARE good! They may not be EQ2 but they are MUCH better than EQ1 or even SWG from what I have seen. I think you will be VERY surprised.

Remember, we are a small game and we are being serviced by a small company who will provide our servers and provide customer service. We are not a huge company. Huge companies would not TOUCH a game like Adellion. They would not take the risks that Alchemic Dream is taking.

Who know though..if we take off and fill the servers to capacity and make more money for Alchemic Dream than we thought we would, maybe Adellion can expand to other servers. But that is not our goal at this time. We are setting realistic goals that we know we can meet. We are small, we don't have the resources, and we are limited on server size.

Trust me, I am guessing 99% of you will be thrilled with the graphics. ;)

[Frayc Frostborne]

I saw the movie. It looked good, but without a character there I couldn't get a good reference on scales. Some games have badly out of scale things in relationship to character avatars. Chairs, tables, construction features. In WoW for example, while I think the art if good, there are many items like tables that are way too big for the characters of that racial type in that area, i.e. human areas to human avatars.

Another thing that I always forget when discussing graphics is that there are two things to consider. The world around the character and the character avatar. Personally, I need both to be good. Beyond that, the movements of the avatars is also another consideration. To use WoW as an example again, the avatars stand funny, their legs bent at the knees. They almost look mangled, especially on the human males. Speaking of that, why does this seem to be not only common between different games, but why also do the females not stand this way? (Must be a "lady" thing, hehe)

The movement seems very acceptable in WoW, considering the cartoonie style. All in all, it's good, but the way the menfolk stand is a gripe I have, and it bothers me every time I play.

If I can use examples, let me break it down this way, in games I've played at least a little. There's actually 3 things to consider, avatars/nature/construction

WoW: Avatars good, but human males aggravating in stance.
WoW: Nature very good
WoW: Construction good but very often out of scale

SWG: Avatars very good, but again the legs on human males bent. But they look better than WoWs.
SWG: Nature...good from what I remember
SWG: Construction, again, good from what I remember. (Only played it a few weeks.)

DAoC: Avatars excellent. I like these very much, and I'm talking about the first edition stuff. (First year of release? I didn't play it right at the first, but tried it later on. I didn't stay around long enough for the later addition graphics, so that's unknown to me.)
DAoC: Nature, good, but not as "full" in the folliage like WoW. Again, this is the first edition stuff. Very acceptable.
DAoC: Construction, Out of scale, if I remember right, but very good none the less.

Irth Online (new game): Avatars are pretty good, but the human face and hair (elf also) are terrible. Really hard to warm up to. The dwarf face and head that I saw in a screen pic looked much better. The human looked very much like a pic I saw here for Adellion, the wethead look is very bad. (News here of new art is very good.)
Irth Online: Nature looks pretty good, similar to the first DAoC stuff.
Irth Online: Construction looks pretty good, but I only beta tested it for a short time. Other issues drove me away (like the need to buy a book every 10 skill points to proceed, and the levelling by items game play).

Others....
UO, I liked the 2D art, for this type of game graphics. Their 3D was really bad for avatars and MOBs, and so was the movement.

Dransic(??), 3d but over the shoulder fixed view like UO. Good art and quality, but very limited for characters.

Overall, I would be wildly happy if Adellion has graphics on par with the first edition of DAoC, but with the extra it takes to fill in bushes and tree folliage. I could easily accept something just slightly less.

[Teila]

Frayc, Thank you for your interest in the graphics, but Adellion graphics will be good enough for 99% of the people interested in playing Adellion. Yes, some will not be happy with anything less than their ideas of good graphics...which, by the way, is very subjective. Based on your response, you are very particular. ;) So you might not be happy...I say this not because I have compared your requests to our graphics, but because I don't think it is really fair to ask our animators and graphic artists to create the game according to the specs of a few very particular people. I don't like the game play in DAoC so I don't play it. If you don't like Adellion's graphics, you have the opportunity to refuse to play the game.

We have said for a long time that our graphics would not be as good as the new generation games out there simply because we do not have the resources. However, recent changes have resulted in an upgrade to our graphics so I believe we will be better than games like the original DAoC...but again, that is based on MY opinions. Personally, I care more about beautiful scenery and models than about the way my character's legs bend. ;) But that is MY personal preference.

You will have to wait and see when the game is released. In the meantime, this speculation about the poor quality of Adellion's graphics is just that, speculation. I would appreciate it if you would delay further discussion of this for a few months. Once we start releasing more graphics, you can start your criticism again. I am afraid this might scare away new folks who are afraid our graphics will be substandard....and they will not be substandard.

BTW, you can see videos of our avatars if you look on the News section of the website. I think they are gorgeous. I like them much better than the avatars on DAoC.

Thanks!

[Frayc Frostborne]

Teila, don't give up on me. I'd rather be shown where I'm wrong than go on in the dark. I don't know why I didn't see that video before, I must have been short on time and passed it up. That does look very nice. Especially for that stage of development.

I didn't like DAoC either. I've played quite a few games just to get a feel for what's out there. I was only talking about graphics, not game play.

I know I can test people with my headstrong ways. I'm sorry. :o

[Phophos]

My two cents are that the graphics don't really matter, because if I wanted to play a game for graphics I'd definitely go for FFXI. No, instead I choose to play Adellion because of the community and the roleplay focus.

So although I'm sure that the graphics will be great, I don't really care either way. Storyline is way cooler than graphics any day.

[Teila]

Teila, don't give up on me. I'd rather be shown where I'm wrong than go on in the dark. I don't know why I didn't see that video before, I must have been short on time and passed it up. That does look very nice. Especially for that stage of development.

I didn't like DAoC either. I've played quite a few games just to get a feel for what's out there. I was only talking about graphics, not game play.

I know I can test people with my headstrong ways. I'm sorry. :o

I think you need to wait until beta to decide for yourself. No one else can reassure you. I can't tell you are wrong because you are simply stating your preferences. The graphics are good...whether the term 'good' fits into your definition, I can't say. Be patient. You can decide not to play later if you wish but for now, all you can do is wait.

[caf]

Just to throw in my 2 cents. Too many peoples consider the graphic to be the 1st quality of a game. And too many peoples have been deceived by this assumption.

Remember that the graphic are there to support the gameplay not the other way around. That's what we try to achieve in Adellion, have graphic to support gameplay. This does not mean that we won't have graphic that are of a decent quality. But we won't "ever" be able to make graphics that are at par with big titles like WOW or EQII (unless somebody throw a few millions $ at us, then we can get a 50 man art team).

I suggest not to make assumptions until we actually release something about the new rewamped graphics.

CAF

[Candiro]

I don't know why you'd fret about the graphics of a game that's barely in alpha; it will get better.

[jared798]

This does not mean that we won't have graphic that are of a decent quality. But we won't "ever" be able to make graphics that are at par with big titles like WOW or EQII (unless somebody throw a few millions $ at us, then we can get a 50 man art team).

CAF

What do you mean "You won't ever be able to make graphics as good as WoW?" I play WoW alot and the graphics aren't that great. When I viewed the screenshots of Adellion they were way better than WoW...

[Teila]

What do you mean "You won't ever be able to make graphics as good as WoW?" I play WoW alot and the graphics aren't that great. When I viewed the screenshots of Adellion they were way better than WoW...

I think this goes to show you that everything is perspective. :) One person's good graphics are another person's bad graphics.

[caf]

What do you mean "You won't ever be able to make graphics as good as WoW?" I play WoW alot and the graphics aren't that great. When I viewed the screenshots of Adellion they were way better than WoW...

There you go :D

Teila is right depend on persons, I tried WOW and running it at max graphics it's very nice. I like the graphics they have (maybe it's my bad taste ;) )

[Equalizer]

I thought it was a bit cartoonship. Other games tend to make their textures look like anime. I would just like something realistic :) .

[caf]

That's exactly the Cartoonish look that I liked. But don't worry, Adellion will try to be realistic.

[durek]

That's exactly the Cartoonish look that I liked. But don't worry, Adellion will try to be realistic.

How about making graphics in par with Dark and Light which is actually now Settlers of Ganareth which I am participating in currently? There's no grass weaving around but it is nice when it doesn't crash. They are working on it feverishly though and I have faith in the project.